Kimberly Bowen – Recruiting Talent in Niche Labor Markets

Connect with Kimberly:

• 

Connect with Dwight:

• 
• dwight.brown@salary.com

Connect with David:

• 
• 
• david.turetsky@salary.com

Podcast Manager, Karissa Harris:

• HRDataLabs@salary.com

 

Production by Affogato Media

Resources:

• Real-time Job Postings Salary Data
• HR Data Labs Season 7 Episode 17
• HR Data Labs Season 7 Episode 15

• “[When recruiting for niche roles] companies have to look at what makes sense for their business from a cultural perspective and from a labor market perspective.”
• “There’s a cultural component for us working on [projects together and in-person] that is very important for our growth as an organization. It strengthens and deepens our commitment to our values and our purpose.”

Announcer: 0:02

Here's an experiment for you. Take passionate experts in human resource technology. Invite cross industry experts from inside and outside HR. Mix in what's happening in people analytics today. Give them the technology to connect, hit record for their discussions into a beaker. Mix thoroughly. And voila, you get the HR Data Labs podcast, where we explore the impact of data and analytics to your business. We may get passionate and even irreverent, that count on each episode challenging and enhancing your understanding of the way people data can be used to solve real world problems. Now, here's your host, David Turetsky.

 

David Turetsky: 0:46

Hello, and welcome to the HR Data Labs podcast. I'm your host David Turetsky alongside my friend, trusted co-host, colleague, partner and Salary.com co-employee, Dwight Brown.

 

Dwight Brown: 0:57

David Turetsky, how are you?

 

David Turetsky: 1:00

I'm okay. As you can tell, I've had a lot of caffeine today, so this is gonna go really, go by really fast.

 

Dwight Brown: 1:06

David's like a hummingbird today. He's just all over the place.

 

David Turetsky: 1:10

Why? I don't know why the flight of the Valkyrie just can't my mind, that song. But we have a very special guest today. Kimberly Bowen, Kimberly, how are you?

 

Kimberly Bowen: 1:20

I'm fantastic. I'm probably going to match your energy. So just get ready.

 

David Turetsky: 1:26

Oh awesome! Yeah, there you go, awesome. Kimberly, tell us a little bit about you and how you got to this moment in time.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 1:33

Yeah, so I grew up as an Air Force brat. I'm based in Chattanooga, Tennessee, but grew up all over this great country and Canada, actually graduated from high school there.

 

David Turetsky: 1:45

Wow!

 

Kimberly Bowen: 1:46

And I work for a major disability provider and I've been in HR for about 23 years now.

 

David Turetsky: 1:53

That's awesome. So you speak Canuck.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 1:55

Uh, I do not.

 

David Turetsky: 2:01

You play hockey. You play hockey?

 

Kimberly Bowen: 2:03

I like to watch hockey. I do not play. But I do like to watch. I got into it. You know and in high school, we had a great hockey team. And so yeah, I'm still very much a hockey fan to this day. As the Canadians would say, there was a fight and then a hockey game broke out.

 

Dwight Brown: 2:22

I was gonna ask, do you like hockey for the hockey? Or do you like it for the fights? I like it for the fight but you know?

 

Kimberly Bowen: 2:29

It's for the fights!

 

David Turetsky: 2:30

Hey listen, I played for 50 years, I've only gotten to like five or six fights during that time.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 2:36

I have I... well, you weren't doing it right. You should get in one every game!

 

David Turetsky: 2:43

But I'm a goalie too. And a goalie fight is a very rare occasion.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 2:47

That's rare. Yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 2:50

But but yeah no, it's not. It's not something that we actively tried to do.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 2:55

Yeah no, in your in your position that makes complete sense.

 

David Turetsky: 2:59

Thank you. But now that you've told us all that background, now, I'm going to ask you was that the one fun thing that no one knows about you? Do people kind of know about that bit about you?

 

Kimberly Bowen: 3:08

Yeah. So I think most people know that. There's, there is one fun fact that people don't know, and I'm going to tell it as quickly as I can. And it I will be very transparent is kind of born from trauma, from a trauma experience. But here's the deal. I have a wardrobe calendar, and I can tell you what I am going to wear 365 days of the year. I have

 

Dwight Brown: 3:33

Really?

 

Kimberly Bowen: 3:34

I started Yes, this is a true story. Very few people know this, but it is true about me. So in high school, I'll just tell you, my maiden name is Strange. So I was Kimberly Strange. And if you remember in school, it was always last name first. So the very first day of school and the teacher would take attendance. I was Strange, Kimberly. So I was primed for all the bullying.

 

David Turetsky: 4:04

Oh my god, I'm so sorry.

 

Dwight Brown: 4:06

That's like 25 years of therapy in the making right there.

 

David Turetsky: 4:09

Oh my god it so is.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 4:11

So by the time I got to high school, I, you know, there's nothing I can do about my name. And I saw the mean girls and some of the things that people were getting picked on for and I just will never forget the very first day of high or the very first week of high school. There was a group of girls, really mean girls are a thing. And they said to this, this poor kid, didn't you wear those same jeans on Tuesday? Oh my gosh! And I thought, Okay, I can't do anything about

 

David Turetsky: 4:38

Yeah. my name, but I can control what I wear. And so I went home that night, and I literally took every piece of clothing that I owned out and I mix and matched as many outfits as I could so I never wore the exact same outfit. And I wrote them all down and I did this for 30 days. And then I did it again for another 30 days and another 30 days. And after doing this for four years in high school, it just became a part of who I am. And to this day, I still use a wardrobe calendar so I can tell you exactly what I'm going to wear. That's awesome!

 

Kimberly Bowen: 5:15

People think I have the best wardrobe because they never see me in the same thing like for an extended period of time. So that's why I said, it was born from trauma, because I was really just trying to avoid being picked on for something other than, you know, Strange, Kimberly. But it has served me well, as an adult. I don't spend time in my closet, figuring out what I'm gonna wear every day.

 

David Turetsky: 5:38

Yeah, just look it up!

 

Kimberly Bowen: 5:39

I already know. Yep. People ask, well, what if you don't feel like wearing that thing that day? Well, then I just look at the calendar and figure out what else do I want to wear? And then I swap those outfits.

 

David Turetsky: 5:52

That's amazing. That's brilliant.

 

Dwight Brown: 5:53

You officially win the award for the best, hands down, hands down of all the things we've heard none have been that good.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 6:04

Now everybody is gonna, everybody's gonna want to

 

David Turetsky: 6:04

None, definitely. figure out how to do it. I so wish I could connect with somebody who can help me figure out. Well, if somebody can help me figure out how to do this in app format. I can I could market this and sell it, it'd be great. You and me! We'll do it. We'll get it done.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 6:22

That'd be awesome.

 

David Turetsky: 6:22

Sold.

 

Dwight Brown: 6:23

Wow.

 

David Turetsky: 6:24

However,

 

Kimberly Bowen: 6:24

Wadrobe calendar!

 

David Turetsky: 6:25

I have another thing that that we need to definitely need to talk about. So have you gotten your PhD? You would have been Doctor Strange.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 6:34

Yes! I would have been Doctor Strange! Didn't go that far in school. Just have the masters. But yes, I would have been Doctor Strange. But here's the thing, now.

 

David Turetsky: 6:42

One of the greatest Marvel characters.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 6:44

It would have been super cool. It would not have been, you know, was not cool in high school. But today? Yeah, I would have been cool if I was Doctor Strange.

 

David Turetsky: 6:50

Actually, there was a faction of kids who you probably didn't want to hang out with. But there were a faction of kids who loved Doctor Strange and probably would have embraced you as their god.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 6:59

Yeah, I missed that crowd. I missed them. I don't know where those students were. But

 

David Turetsky: 7:05

Oh no, they were there. They were there. They were the invisible people because I was part of them so I know.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 7:11

Well, I was I was invisible too except for my name.

 

David Turetsky: 7:15

Yeah, well, that's a good thing! You stayed under the radar.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 7:17

I was the only Strange usually in the whole school. So that that usually got passed around pretty quickly.

 

David Turetsky: 7:23

Kimberly, we already love you. So

 

Kimberly Bowen: 7:24

Aw thank you.

 

David Turetsky: 7:26

So the people who are listening are going, oh my god, these guys are having too much fun. But this is a podcast about human resources. So we've got to get to the topic, because the topic is just awesome, too. So today's topic is recruiting for niche talent in niche labor markets. So Kimberly, our first question is, what's one of the biggest challenges in recruiting and retaining talent in today's competitive job market?

 

Kimberly Bowen: 8:00

Yeah, that's such a great question. And I'm so excited to talk about it! So I think there's two things that have happened over the last couple of years that both employers and job seekers have to acknowledge is that the labor market has shifted. As a result of COVID, one of the things that we know happened was that there was a pretty sizable migration of people moving to different areas within the country. So you had people that were in the city that were moving into more, you know, rural areas. Some folks migrated from big cities to small towns, and so where the talent exists today, and that heat map, or the landscape of that is very different than what it was even three years ago, four years ago. And so the first thing that I think companies really need to understand is, what does their labor market look like today? Because most companies are used to just casting a net, and you know, hiring locally for specific talent. And when we talk about niche talent, we're really talking about your finance, your DTO, your kind of highly specialized knowledge and skill sets. And maybe you're fishing in a pond where there's no fish anymore. And so you've got to really adjust. So one of the first things that employers have to do is really re-educate themselves about what their labor market looks like today, because like I said, it's gone through a pretty sizable shift. And then the other piece that I think is also challenging within the labor market today, is that three, three or four years ago, the candidate or the job seeker, let's be honest, they had the upper hand, and there were a lot of things that people could ask for and companies were pretty flexible. We were rolling out the red carpet for talent.

 

David Turetsky: 9:54

Right.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 9:54

And that's not so much the case anymore. So the things that maybe were permissible to ask for or to even expect a company to provide three years ago, it's just not a reality. And I think all of this has changed so quickly, that to be honest, I think it's given both employers and jobseekers, a little bit of whiplash. Because people don't realize that things have changed and so they're still operating off of some outdated principles. And you know, both both sides have got to make some changes to be able to meet in the middle. Because if you look at the labor market today, what's interesting is that unemployment is lower than it has been in years, decades. I mean, I think we're 3.9% for the month of February. And I think that equates to about 6.5 million people out of work? But there's about 8.8 million jobs. So if there's more jobs than there are job seekers, why can't companies hire and why can't people find jobs? So it's really this mismatch, that that's happening in our labor market today that has to be addressed, and has to be acknowledged.

 

David Turetsky: 11:05

So let's first take one of those pieces and try and examine it a little further. Because it's actually to me, it's fascinating, which is the culture of a company who's trying to recruit in their own market. The world is now your oyster, you can hire from anywhere, but you still have those managers who insist, no, I want to find someone local, I want to have someone come into the office, if they're in the office type of place for right now.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 11:28

Right.

 

David Turetsky: 11:28

And they, and I think what you're saying is, get over yourself! This is no longer the situation where you can put an ad in the New York Times or wherever, and expect someone to apply for it, and then be able to walk in your office, you know, do the interviews. You know, the world has changed significantly, right? I mean, the dynamics of that of that have changed?

 

Kimberly Bowen: 11:48

got to look at what makes sense, not only for their business, from a cultural perspective, but what makes sense from a labor market and a talent perspective? And how do you sort of marry the two. So I'll tell you, what we've done within our organization is that we're a hybrid organization, right? So we have a percentage of our jobs that are what we call campus based and folks are expected to come into the office. But we also acknowledge that a percentage of our workforce needs to be fully remote. And what is encapsulated in you know, that particular bucket of remote roles are those niche jobs. So when we know that we need to hire in the technology space, or in the finance space, because that talent pool is in such high demand. And there is a short supply compared to how many employers are needing to hire in that space, you have to be flexible. So we allow those roles to be remote, we allow those roles to to have more flexibility around where they work. And that works for us.

 

Dwight Brown: 13:02

And do you ever see backlash and resentment toward those niche jobs is as a result of that?

 

Kimberly Bowen: 13:11

Sometimes! I mean, I think that it but it's less about those roles, I think people really kind of understand, okay, it's difficult to find that talent in the local markets. And so maybe you have to have to hire remotely. I think where we still see some expectancy is that just sort of, as I talked about holding on to sort of outdated philosophies of, hey, I did this job remotely for two years, during COVID. I don't understand why I can't continue to do it remotely.

 

Dwight Brown: 13:40

Right.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 13:41

And that's not really the debate. I don't think anybody's debating whether the jobs can be done. There's a lot of things that you can do. The question is, should you? And so I think that's what we as an organization, and most companies are really grappling with is based on our culture, our strategic plans, where we're trying to take our organization, what really serves that from a labor perspective? Can we do that with a fully remote workforce? Or can we do that with a hybrid? Or does everybody have to work in the office? And so I think that, you know, that dynamic is different for every organization. And companies have to make that decision, but not in a vacuum, right? You look at you look at your peers, you see what other organizations are doing. You take feedback from your employees, you look at productivity. I mean, there's a lot of pieces of information that I think companies can look at to figure out what that needs to be for them.

 

David Turetsky: 14:41

But I think it's a very confusing picture right now, because many companies are struggling with the what's the best thing and there really isn't a an answer. You have some on this side that say it's got to be everybody's got to be in the office and then some decide to go why? And have embraced full remote. And then there's some like you are in the middle where, you know, some people can be some people don't don't have to be. But to me, there's, there's some kind of freedom in being able to say, I can hire the best talent I can if I don't worry about where they're located, and take the, and I'm sorry if I'm if I'm insulting people, the myopathy of "they must be in the office and they must do that!" Well, okay, well wait a minute, if I can find someone who's got all the skills, and they, they check all the boxes, except for one, which is location.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 15:33

Yes.

 

David Turetsky: 15:33

And if you kind of need them to be there every once in a while, okay, fine pay pay for a plane ticket, or a bus ticket or whatever, or you know, a train ticket. But hiring the best person doesn't necessarily mean they need to live next door.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 15:46

That is absolutely correct. And I think that's where for organizations like mine, where we understand that, and so we have that flexibility. And let me say, you know, if we have a role that does not fall within the finance or the technology space, but maybe it requires a special experience or special knowledge. And we know that that talent does not exist in our local market, and we're going to have to go outside of that, we will, and we'll make that decision. And so I think that's the key, right, is that you've got to have the flexibility within your organization to make different choices based on the circumstances and whatever is going to meet your needs. I think for those organizations that are trying to sort of shoehorn everybody into a one size fits all solution, I think that's where you have the the challenge. But you know, for us, our employees work in the office, if you are an individual contributor, it's two days a week. And if you're a people leader then it's three. And so we still even within that, they still have some days to work from home, or work wherever they want to work. And then in addition to that we actually offer one week, out of every quarter, you can work from anywhere. So you know, if your family goes to the beach, every, you know, July, and maybe you don't want to use your PTO, and you don't want to take all all your time, go work from the beach for a week, and use that as your work from anywhere for the, work from anywhere week for the quarter. So I think again, it's about that flexibility. However, you can provide that flexibility within your organization, and it supports your culture, and it supports your strategic vision, then do it.

 

Announcer: 17:42

Like what you hear so far? Make sure you never miss a show by clicking subscribe. This podcast is made possible by Salary.com. Now back to the show.

 

David Turetsky: 17:53

What about those single parents? Or even the parents who are two earners, who are they're both working? Do you think that there's a way we can support them by offering whether it's a child care benefit. And I know that there's, you know, the flexible spending account for child care, but I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about access to like some kind of service or whatever, or some reasonable accommodation. So if the kid has to get off the bus and you said they need to be in the office three days a week, when they don't have anybody to help them there. What, you know, what do you say about the kind of flexibility that's built into the people who had been flexibly working from home?

 

Kimberly Bowen: 18:32

So I think that gets into the benefits, right, of whatever that organization is offering. And that really is about meeting your employees where they are.

 

David Turetsky: 18:43

Exactly.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 18:44

So you've again, you've got to take a look at what can you do that's reasonable, right? Because everybody's got skin in this game. I can't solve childcare issues for our workforce, you know, single handedly. They've got to meet us, you know, meet us halfway.

 

David Turetsky: 19:01

You're Doctor Strange!

 

Kimberly Bowen: 19:02

I am Doctor Strange, but I don't,

 

David Turetsky: 19:04

You move time!

 

Kimberly Bowen: 19:04

My powers are not working right now! But we've got, we have such a robust, so we have things like. So one of

 

David Turetsky: 19:09

Right. the things, and not to skip away from childcare, because that

 

Kimberly Bowen: 19:16

And then again, we also, you know, we have, we certainly is important. And that's a whole other issue. You guys could do a whole other show on the lack of childcare in this country today. But what's also on the other end of that spectrum, because we're dealing with a multi generational workforce is, you know, caregivers. So we have a lot of our employees that are taking care of parents! And so we've got caregiver leave, we have you know, other benefits. We do have backup childcare support. So we do have those types of benefits have managers who are empowered to say, okay, I'm going to work that can support our employees in making plans and how to manage some of those pieces of their life. with this person. And if they need to get a kid off the bus for the next four weeks, because they need time to make alternative arrangements, then I can do that. So I again, it goes back to employers have a lot of flexibility in what they can do. But the flip side to that is, the employee also has to meet them in the middle, and they can't expect that we're going to carry the brunt or carry the weight of all of this. They've got to make some decisions and some concessions too. And if it's not the right culture, the right organization, if you're trying to work a hybrid job, and you really need 100%, fully remote because of your own personal circumstances, then you know, as an employee, you have a choice to make. You can't expect the employer to solve all of those issues for you.

 

David Turetsky: 20:52

Absolutely, for sure.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 20:52

So it's a two way street, two way street. But I think that as I said, at the beginning, everybody's kind of recovering from some whiplash, because things looked very different three years ago.

 

Dwight Brown: 21:03

Sure.

 

David Turetsky: 21:04

And that's one of the problems, though, is that whiplash, it's not all on the employee, and it cannot be all on the employer, there has to be some give and take, and it has to be a mature conversation.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 21:14

That's right.

 

David Turetsky: 21:15

It's not always been the case. As we've seen, actually, with return to work, where one side says, you're gonna get your butt in here, and you're gonna be here five days a week, and you're gonna be eight hours a day, or you're fired. I mean, I'm not really sure what that leader was thinking about when they were so draconian about that, you know, pronouncement. But that's not what we expect, after what we just dealt with through COVID-19. Right? So, you know, as employees, let's put on

 

Dwight Brown: 21:40

Right. an employee hat now, you know, the equations changed a little bit too. And we now have seen that employees have gotten some of that, quote, unquote, power, about how I want to work, how I want to live and what my balance between life work is not work life, but life work, so that the intentionality of I want to live, and then I have to do my job. Not, I'm going to take a call at 10pm even when I'm putting my kid to bed, because, you know, there's an emergency. People have gotten a little bit of that power, haven't they?

 

Kimberly Bowen: 22:16

Yeah! Absolutely, I would say so. I mean, I think that, you know, three years ago, when we were all trying to navigate through COVID, and what was necessary, you know, decisions that were necessary at that time, it definitely shifted things. What I will say, though, is that COVID was absolutely, you know, for many of us, will be probably one of the worst experiences of our lives, as we you know, look back on our on our history, and what we've lived through for all of us that went through that. But there was a life before COVID and it didn't wipe all of those things away. And so I think that there are there there, I think there are definitely some things that have changed and have evolved and are moving forward. But there are also some things that are simply going back to the way they were pre COVID. Because that that's how those things work. And so, there is an expectation within organizations that culture is very important. There are things about, you know, an organization that it requires people to be in the office, it requires people to have face time with one another. So, for example, within my organization, we are extremely committed to community service. We give to our community where the communities where we live and work we give to those communities through volunteerism, through financial support. We need our employees coming into the office to participate in those things, because some of those things we do here on site! You can't do that remotely, you can't pack care packages, for, you know, homeless people, you can't, you know, pack care packages for teachers, these are some of the things that we do. You can't do it from home. Now, I wouldn't say you can't, but part of that is there is a cultural component for us working on those things together,

 

David Turetsky: 24:18

Right!

 

Kimberly Bowen: 24:18

that is very important for for our growth as an organization, it strengthens and deepens you know, our commitment to our values, and to our purpose as a company. And so for us, those are important times that we would want people to be in the office. So I and that that was the case pre COVID. So we weren't able to do those things during COVID, but now we can. So that's not a new ask or you know, something that we're just being difficult about. We're just right sizing something that was already in play before we all got hit with COVID

 

David Turetsky: 24:57

Totally understand what you're saying Kimberly. However, there's reasons to ask people to come into the office, and that's a really good one, right? You know, having an event like that, having meetings, team meetings that, you know, listen, if you can please make it in for a team meeting, we want to, we want to be together, we want to, you know, talk about things. And, you know, we want to try and problem solve. However, you know, just like both of us know, the commuting, the cost, the kids on the bus, and not a lot of those things, except for the being in person and being together and doing care packages, which are wonderful. Those are things that can happen remotely. The things about getting together and sharing your culture. Yeah, I get it. But that's an event you can have people come into the event,

 

Kimberly Bowen: 25:42

Of course! But here's the thing. We believe can't you? that face to face interactions, albeit, as I mentioned, before, two days a week or three days a week, we believe all of those interactions in person meetings, and not just the the CSR and community service events, but all of that interaction strengthens the culture of our company, the relationships, the working relationships that people have. And so for us, that makes sense. And because I think that we have been able to clearly articulate that to our workforce, and they get it, we've been able to sustain that. Now we, again, we came back to the office a long time ago. But you know, I get that not everybody was on that same timeline. So some people are in a different stage of this, you know, work than we are. We've been back to work for a few years now. So. So it's very different.

 

David Turetsky: 26:41

Hey, are you listening to this and thinking to yourself, Man, I wish I could talk to David about this? Well, you're in luck, we have a special offer for listeners of the HR Data Labs podcast, a free half hour call with me about any of the topics we cover, on the podcast, or whatever is on your mind, go to Salary.com/HRDLconsulting, to schedule your FREE 30 minute call today. And I think that kind of gets to the employee prop value proposition. And when you're trying to find those really hard to find people, you know. Or you have situations where, you know, we you, you have already hired from the very beginning, even pre COVID, you hired excellent talent, like my colleague, Dwight Brown, and never lived near a Salary.com office, not expecting him to come in except for like, you know, on team meetings,

 

Dwight Brown: 27:33

On site meetings or something. Yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 27:35

So, you know, there is that, you know, especially given what we were talking about, about niche markets and finding niche talent, you know, it's really difficult, as we we've just mentioned, to try and look at a geographic area and say, I'm only going to hire here, right? And then be able to extend an offer to someone who's in Kuala Lumpur, or, you know, hiring someone overseas, you know, or even using gig work. Those who really gotta be kind of you're not necessarily a stop stop gap. But, you know, that's filling in for those niche players that you just can't find elsewhere,

 

Kimberly Bowen: 28:09

Um, maybe? I mean, I think it depends on what aren't they? you're hiring for. I also think it depends on where you're located. You know, I think one of the issues that we have is that, you know, we're multi location organization. So that's the other issue, right, is that we aren't just one building in one city. We have what we would call three home offices within the country. And then we have about 75 sales offices, you know, across the states. So we have some options in terms of where we can put people.

 

David Turetsky: 28:43

Right.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 28:44

So we don't always necessarily have to go to the remote because we have so many locations that we can connect people to. And so for us, that's a unique circumstance that I know not every employer has. But I think that's the you know, so if you have a main office, maybe in a major city, maybe you need to find talent elsewhere. But do you have a smaller office or a sales office or you know, somewhere else that maybe you can look for talent, and in that particular labor market, the talent that you need, especially in that niche area is right. For us? We're very close to Atlanta, we have an Atlanta hub. And so we hire a lot of our niche roles in that office, versus in our Chattanooga office, because the talent pool there is much healthier for those skill sets than it is here in Chattanooga. And so I think geography definitely plays a role. But again, it's what type of flexibility do you have to make different talent decisions around where you place you know, the talent? And if you have more than one office, then you know, use that to your advantage if you can.

 

Dwight Brown: 29:51

Geography matters, but so does dispersion basically.

 

David Turetsky: 29:55

Well, one of the fun things that just happened to Salary.com is a bunch of our associates actually started, we started hiring people, but also we started realizing, there's bunch of people in the Denver area. And so like, we could actually create Salary.com West, because of all the people, I think there's seven or eight people that are not far from Denver, Colorado, or actually in Denver. So it's actually kind of funny how that's naturally kind of progressing to foment around that particular area. And they actually do get together, there's a bunch of people who get together from that area to kind of, you know, talk and get to know each other and help each other out. Because I think a lot of them are also, Dwight are they mostly in the consulting side?

 

Dwight Brown: 30:39

Yeah, most of them. I like to say that I head up the Phoenix office.

 

David Turetsky: 30:46

You and the two dogs are the Phoenix office!

 

Dwight Brown: 30:48

Right, exactly! My two employees, they're kind of lousy employees, but you know.

 

David Turetsky: 30:53

Hey listen, they're good employees.

 

Dwight Brown: 30:56

But But what you say makes a lot of sense, Kimberly, in terms of being able to, you know, so much, so much of this is not only about geography, but really, do you have other offices that employees can come into? And, you know, dispersion definitely is a factor in those decisions as you go.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 31:17

Absolutely. I think employers want to be flexible, I really do. I think they want to be flexible. But you know, what I think is getting a little lost on folks is that at the end of the day, you know, companies are going to, to do what, what they think is best for, you know, their strategic plan and their their growth. And employees will have to decide if that aligns with what they're looking for and what their needs are. And if you can find, you know, common ground and meet in the middle, great! If not, then keep looking until you find what really works for you. You know, like I said earlier, there's more jobs than there are people looking for jobs. So it's just about, you know, finding the right opportunity that fits your needs.

 

David Turetsky: 32:12

Well I mean, one of the other ways we could take Maybe we can have you back and do round two on this. this, which may be in part two of this conversation, given the fact that we we've spent so much time on this, which is the compensation angle of you know, there, the market for jobs has changed, especially for nice jobs. And the pay for those nice jobs have gone through the roof in many cases. Even to the extent at which we've seen unskilled labor rates go through the roof, and it's putting a lot of compression and pressure on the skilled labor. So there you know, there's a lot to talk about here.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 32:57

Absolutely! I'd love to come back! And you have to refer to me as Doctor Strange the whole time.

 

David Turetsky: 33:01

The whole time, the whole time.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 33:05

The whole time.

 

David Turetsky: 33:06

And hopefully you've seen the Doctor Strange movies?

 

Kimberly Bowen: 33:09

Of course, of course!

 

David Turetsky: 33:09

So that you know what I'm doing when I'm moving my hand. I'm moving my hands in a way the Doctor Strange does when he does things with his hands so he opens up time portals. Anyways, Kimberly, sorry, Doctor Strange. It was so wonderful to meet you and to have you on the program.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 33:25

Well, thank you! It was great to be here. I enjoyed the conversation. It's it's definitely one worth having and I look forward to coming back again soon.

 

David Turetsky: 33:33

Round two. Dwight, thank you.

 

Dwight Brown: 33:36

Thank you and thanks for being here. Actually after this I'm going to go do my wardrobe calendar. But the problem is I've only got two outfits. So you know my week is a short week. I'm going to be in my PJs half the time

 

David Turetsky: 33:52

Wow this is another one fun thing that new no one knew about Dwight.

 

Dwight Brown: 33:59

Exactly, or wanted to know!

 

David Turetsky: 34:05

But wait, after Doctor Strange and I come up with that new wardrobe calendar, and it's going to be called Doctor Strange's Wardrobe Calendar.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 34:11

I love it!

 

David Turetsky: 34:12

It's gonna sell millions, millions of downloads.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 34:14

Millions.

 

Dwight Brown: 34:15

I got to witness the inception of this idea.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 34:18

It's the app that the world never knew they needed.

 

Dwight Brown: 34:21

Exactly.

 

David Turetsky: 34:22

They do, they need it!

 

Dwight Brown: 34:24

Move over Bumble, here comes Doctor Strange's Wardrobe Calendar!

 

David Turetsky: 34:29

Actually, it can be an add on to the dating calendar. The dating app. You want to have the right outfit for your date!

 

Kimberly Bowen: 34:37

That's exactly right! Love it.

 

David Turetsky: 34:39

We've already developed the business plan no one steal this we have to patent it before we actually air the episode. Again, Doctor Strange, sorry, Kimberly, thank you so much. You're awesome.

 

Kimberly Bowen: 34:50

Thank you. Have a great day guys!

 

David Turetsky: 34:52

You too. And thank you all for listening, take care and stay safe.

 

Announcer: 34:57

That was the HR Data Labs podcast. If you liked the episode, please subscribe. And if you know anyone that might like to hear it, please send it their way. Thank you for joining us this week and stay tuned for our next episode. Stay safe