Kathy Hammond – Why Data is Critical When Hiring for High-Performance Sales Roles

Connect with Kathy:

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Connect with Dwight:

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• dwight.brown@salary.com

Connect with David:

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• david.turetsky@salary.com

Podcast Manager, Karissa Harris:

• HRDataLabs@salary.com

 

Production by Affogato Media

Resources:

• Real-time Job Postings Salary Data
• RecruitSolut
• HR Data Labs Season 7 Episode 18
• HR Data Labs Season 7 Episode 16

• “There’s so much bias in the hiring process . . . and there are a lot of misconceptions around it.”
• “You have to understand what the sales process is. It’s shocking that a lot of sales leaders have no idea—they cannot identify the various stages of their sales process.”

Announcer: 0:02

Here's an experiment for you. Take passionate experts in human resource technology, invite cross industry experts from inside and outside HR. Mix in what's happening in people analytics today. Give them the technology to connect, hit record for their discussions into a beaker. Mix thoroughly. And voila, you get the HR Data Labs podcast, where we explore the impact of data and analytics to your business. We may get passionate and even irreverent, that count on each episode challenging and enhancing your understanding of the way people data can be used to solve real world problems. Now, here's your host, David Turetsky.

 

David Turetsky: 0:46

Hello, and welcome to the HR Data Labs podcast. I'm your host, David Turetsky alongside my friend, partner, buddy, Dwight Brown. Dwight Brown, bow are you?

 

Dwight Brown: 0:56

David Turetsky, I'm good. How are you doing?

 

David Turetsky: 0:58

I'm okay. I'm okay. It's been a very strange morning. It was 24 degrees out here. And I don't know why I'm surprised by the fact that it's actually still winter. Still meteorologically, media media logical, forget it, it's still winter.

 

Dwight Brown: 1:12

It's still winter.

 

David Turetsky: 1:14

But you know what's exciting, Dwight?

 

Dwight Brown: 1:16

Tell me.

 

David Turetsky: 1:17

Today we get to talk to Kathy Hammond. Kathy, welcome.

 

Kathy Hammond: 1:21

Thanks, really looking forward to our discussion.

 

David Turetsky: 1:25

Kathy, before we get started, give us a little bit of background on who you are, what you do, and how you got to this moment in time.

 

Kathy Hammond: 1:30

Okay, you know, I've been in sales my entire career. And, you know, over the years, and as I've, of course, experienced job hunting myself, and so on. And I always wondered like if why someone was making the decisions that they were making. So as I had progressed throughout my sales career, and then eventually after graduating graduate school, that I became really interested in Workforce Solutions. So, and I had worked with a company for like an employee engagement surveys and, and then, and then I went to work for a company called PSI services. And they were one of the largest employee selection testing companies in the US. And so I learned quite a bit there. So as I started pairing the two and seeing how that could really be leveraged to even to improve a company's sales position. So I created my own built a sales recruiting agency called Sales Fit. And from Sales Fit, I had developed a system that would reliably you know, identify, attract, engage, and that high performing sales people. And so from that I started, of course, then marketing that particular system to other companies who could benefit from that. So and that leads me to today.

 

David Turetsky: 2:57

Excellent. Kathy, what we always ask our guests is, what's one fun thing that no one knows about Kathy Wow. Hammond?

 

Kathy Hammond: 3:04

Yeah, it's funny you asked because, and I had brought that up to my husband the other day, and we've been married a long time. And he said, Really?! I learned, I used And so I had to at least be able to count to to work for the, at the Guam Hilton at the front desk when I was going to the University of Guam. And I actually brought in someone from the university to come teach us Japanese, because we were dealing with so many Japanese tourists. And one of the things because what would they would happen is the tour buses would come in, and they would let off a whole group of Japanese tourists. And they would come to the front desk, and they'd have to get their keys. So I would just stand there at that big wall of all the keys. And they would be shouting that room numbers and I had to pull all the keys. So I I learned how to count in Japanese. And for whatever reason, I could just count endlessly because we had 365 365. And but I could count beyond that. hotel rooms at that time.

 

David Turetsky: 4:11

That's crazy. I can imagine what it's like to be standing at the counter with a bunch of people who just got off a tour bus, whether they're Japanese tourists or anybody, you know, clamoring for their keys, so wow, you must have patience of a saint.

 

Kathy Hammond: 4:25

I had a good memory too.

 

Dwight Brown: 4:28

That always helps.

 

Kathy Hammond: 4:31

Not when it comes to my husband though. He doesn't like my memory.

 

Dwight Brown: 4:36

You've got selective memory.

 

Kathy Hammond: 4:37

Yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 4:40

As we know, in relationships, it's good to have, sometimes good to have a long memory and sometimes very short. But we're not going to have a conversation today about that. Today, we're going to have a really fun one. So let's get to the topic. Our topic for today is the criticality of data in sales recruitment, to hire high performing sales professionals. So Kathy, what's the biggest mistake hiring managers make when having a need to hire a sales rep?

 

Kathy Hammond: 5:13

A couple actually, a couple of mistakes. They don't know what a high performing sales person looks like. They don't know the the knowledge, skills and abilities that they need to possess, and then the experience. And if they're not able to identify that themselves, or they've not identified it, as well as not understanding the company's sales process, so that you can align those skills with that process to make sure that they can actually perform all of those various tasks. If they're not able to, if they don't have that information, they don't have that data, they're not able to convey that to the HR, talent acquisition, or recruiters. So they don't know really what they're looking for.

 

David Turetsky: 6:01

Don't you think they actually have an example of a person on their team? And that that is kind of high performing? They can go, Well can Barbara, can we look at somebody who's just like Barbara and hire Barbara again, somewhere?

 

Kathy Hammond: 6:13

Yeah, they could. I don't see that a lot of them do it. But but they certainly could do that. But they also have to make sure that Barbara really is a high performing salesperson!

 

David Turetsky: 6:25

Right.

 

Kathy Hammond: 6:26

Because we we hire people who are, they're good. But it doesn't mean that they're high performing, the top of the game! Because it's really what is it they're trying to achieve? And so that sort of that's, that's where that disconnect is.

 

David Turetsky: 6:41

And could they explain it? Could they explain what makes Barbra high performant? And could they put it in a job description? And what are the attributes of Barbara? Or what are the attributes of the person who they would like? Or maybe it's a combination of a bunch of different things?

 

Kathy Hammond: 6:57

Well, you really need to start at the actual requirements, what what is it that you're first of all, trying to achieve? You know, who are you going after? What kind of clients you know, what, what level are they are they at? And then you would, you would have to conduct a job analysis, to really determine all of the different steps that are involved all the different requirements, somebody has to be able to perform, you know, and I've often said, you know, in, in my 30, plus years in sales, in doing going for a job interview, and I'm talking fortune 100, companies on down, I've never once been asked to prove that I can actually perform the skills necessary for success on the job at that company. Once you start identifying that, then you can go in and you can take, say, Barbara and say, Okay, does Barbara know how to prospect?

 

David Turetsky: 7:51

Right.

 

Kathy Hammond: 7:52

And what what does that mean to us prospecting? Does Barbara know how to conduct demonstrations? Can she write proposals? I mean, are all of these things necessary for success on the job at your company, because what's going to be your company is not going to be required at some at another company. So you have to be able to do that, that alignment. And so and I like to think of as is really as human capital alignment specialists,

 

David Turetsky: 8:20

Right.

 

Kathy Hammond: 8:21

because that's what we're trying to accomplish.

 

Dwight Brown: 8:24

Do you feel that it's possible to also boil that down to the vital few? In other words, if you were to pick three key competencies for a job that really represented 90%, of what's necessary in that job? Do you think companies do that?

 

Kathy Hammond: 8:42

No.

 

David Turetsky: 8:46

That's not good.

 

Kathy Hammond: 8:48

Well, I'd say, you know, that when when we look at all of the, the different skills that are required, for the tasks to be performed per sales job. And we've identified 24 of them. And so in order for you to be a high performing salesperson, you need to be able to hit the mark on each one of those. So if they're just taking even if they take the top three if they identify that, but they generally don't, because there's so much bias in the hiring process, that, you know, they're not even looking at that! They're looking at, you know, do I like the look of you? You know, do we share some things in common? Do we have good chemistry? You know, and they have views of salespeople, they should be outgoing, and there's no evidence to support. There's never been a study that's ever supported that introverts cannot be as successful in sales as an extrovert. So, you know, there's a lot of misconceptions around

 

David Turetsky: 9:53

But but because we're talking about hiring it. managers now, and hiring managers typically get put into these roles, not necessarily because they're good managers, but because they're good salespeople. And when they get elevated to these levels, when they try and start to repeat the process of hiring someone, you know, you've brought a bias before, isn't it their inherent bias that they want to hire someone literally just like them? To say, Well, I was a successful salesperson, I want to hire someone just like me!

 

Dwight Brown: 10:25

Right.

 

David Turetsky: 10:26

Dwight, you're just like me, you have facial hair, you're a guy, I want to hire you. Isn't that really what's in the mentality of a hiring manager in the sales world? Sorry, by the way all do salespeople that they think I'm hating on them. I'm a salesperson, too. I know what I'm talking about here. But Kathy, is that is that kind of where the sales that that hiring manager is in the sales world?

 

Kathy Hammond: 10:48

Yes. And and what's ironic about that is that they themselves, maybe they got promoted, it doesn't mean that they really were the high performing salesperson.

 

David Turetsky: 10:59

Right. Right.

 

Kathy Hammond: 11:00

So you can, you've got, you can have mediocre hiring managers, hiring mediocre, salespeople because they're alike, and that's what they're comfortable with. And that's where they run into that danger.

 

David Turetsky: 11:13

And that's the exact reason why the Peter Principle exists because people raise their level of incompetence. And that's just right, just kind of factual there.

 

Announcer: 11:23

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David Turetsky: 11:34

So let's go to our second question, which is really now taking it from another perspective, which is taking it from the perspective of the recruiter. So what's the biggest mistake recruiters, talent acquisition professionals make when they get that job requisition about sales?

 

Kathy Hammond: 11:49

They don't question enough about what is required. That's one thing. And they're not collecting the correct data in order to actually make a placement, a really good placement. They don't track their numbers. You know, it's funny, because sales is metric driven. And yet the hiring for salespeople rarely is. And so that needs to be foremost also with the with talent acquisition, and HR, you know, understanding that you know, what it is that they're actually looking for, and then also knowing where to go to find that talent, and then being able to track their numbers so that they can improve upon what they're doing.

 

David Turetsky: 12:38

Now, I've met a lot of recruiters in the sales space. And one of the things that they typically talk to me about is assessments, them doing assessments on people that that are applying for the sales roles. And sometimes those assessments are for capabilities and competencies, but sometimes they're for cultural fit into organizations, when you talk about the typical sales process, not having numbers or not having, you know, the activity or the data. Are you talking about it from the, you know, time to fill and that kind of thing? Or are you talking about from the assessments perspective?

 

Kathy Hammond: 13:14

No, I'm talking about the activities surrounding the sourcing of the candidate. And so that, and if they're tracking from where

 

David Turetsky: 13:20

Okay. they're getting those particular candidates, and then ensuring that they're meeting certain criteria, but again, it goes, goes back to the hiring manager, they have to, to give the correct data. Okay.

 

Kathy Hammond: 13:36

We have approximately in our, in our process of collecting information from from clients. And then what we teach also in the RecruitSolut, is we have 121 different points of data collection, to understand what it is that we're looking for. So this, but when, when it comes to the talent acquisition, and HR, and even for third party recruiters, it's really making sure that they're refining their search. And they can only do that by looking at the data from from different various data points, where they're sourcing, what quality what, you know, what are the different benchmarks that they have for the talent that's required in order to even move them through that talent pipeline.

 

David Turetsky: 14:30

So it's not just a one off sales hire. It's the constant drumbeat and being able to get all the data from your drumbeat to know what's been successful, what's not been successful and how do you contemplate the appropriate sources of hire and cadence of hiring and whatnot, you need to collect all that data that you're talking about?

 

Kathy Hammond: 14:50

Oh, absolutely. You know, because what happens is that there's a blame game that goes on between the hiring managers and the talent acquisition, who's respond for TA. And the and it's only because they're not both reviewing the data from the start, and then being able to refine. So if they'll, you know, hiring manager will hire someone that that TA brought in, and then that person doesn't work out. And then they come back and say, you know, hey, that's your fault, the hiring manager to the, to the TA people, that's your fault, you brought me the wrong person. And it's like, if we're all reviewing, we're all on the same page from the very beginning, then that problem should not occur. So and it's really shouldn't be of them against, you know, the recruiters or the HR, but that if you're a team, you know, you're in it together. So

 

David Turetsky: 15:48

Wait, didn't the hiring manager actually meet the person? Didn't they interview them? Didn't they spend the time to review all the data on and all the, you know, the the resume and the req? Didn't they actually put any effort into it before they did, you know, the blame game?

 

Kathy Hammond: 16:01

Oh, absolutely. However, fewer than 5% of hiring managers have received, like an hour's worth of training on how to hire people. I mean, hiring is a science! I mean, it's not something you wing. But what they're doing, because no one's been trained. So

 

David Turetsky: 16:21

Wait are you telling me, Kathy, that managers don't grow up knowing how to hire people?

 

Kathy Hammond: 16:27

I know, can you can you believe that?

 

Dwight Brown: 16:29

it's hard to believe! Shocking!

 

David Turetsky: 16:33

But that's we've been espousing things like training for managers, for leaders, for a while, not just in the recruiting space, but but for everything. I mean, they need help they need that assistance. We don't grow up, you know, when we're playing, you know, what role do you want to be when you grow up, no one says, I want to be a leader. No one says I want to be a manager, oh, you have to do performance evaluation today. I don't want to do performance evulation! Well, that's actually what people say today.

 

Dwight Brown: 17:01

I'm going to be a firefighter! I'm going to be a sales manager!

 

Kathy Hammond: 17:06

And that's the other thing too, that's funny that you say that about firefighters. I mean, the amount of screening and for them to get into that because I mean, I worked on the the city of Los Angeles for their fire department for the the employees selection, and they have to go through a lot in order to even get there. And then once they're there, then they have to be trained.

 

Dwight Brown: 17:25

Right.

 

Kathy Hammond: 17:26

There's no barrier to entry to sales. The only thing that somehow it's like they use some people just say, Well, it's my fallback position. If I can't become X, I'll become a salesperson. And then sort of they're in there. And then

 

David Turetsky: 17:35

Right. somehow, they managed to get up into a hiring manager role. And it's just that the no one takes that seriously that they need that training, in order to understand actually how to do it. But you know, I mean, here, I went to graduate school, and I have a master's in organizational management with emphasis in HR management, we spent one course that was it, in anything relating to writing job descriptions, interviewing and all of this. And even then I thought, Oh, this is nonsense. But that's all that they're even teaching it in at the university level. So it's like, you know, where do you pick this up? How do you learn it. And it's incumbent upon senior leaders of an organization to make sure their people are trained to perform the job that they're doing.

 

Dwight Brown: 18:29

And it takes the vision of a CEO or, you know, probably the top leader to say, this is what we need, this is what we're going to do, but too often doesn't happen.

 

David Turetsky: 18:39

Right. Well as a CHRO, I know that one of the things we're gonna focus on this year is leadership development. And, you know, getting getting that to be an agreed upon goal is tough. I mean, it's obvious, but it's tough.

 

Dwight Brown: 18:54

Right.

 

Kathy Hammond: 18:54

Yup.

 

David Turetsky: 18:56

Hey, are you listening to this and thinking to yourself, Man, I wish I could talk to David about this? Well, you're in luck. We have a special offer for listeners of the HR Data Labs podcast, a free half hour call with me about any of the topics we cover on the podcast, or whatever is on your mind. Go to Salary.com/HRDLconsulting, to schedule your FREE 30 minute call today. So let's go to the third question, which is really fascinating, kind of brings these two pieces together. It's why don't we all get along? Or why don't the hiring manager and the TA team and the recruiting team, why don't they work together for better hires? And can you give us some examples of what working together could look like?

 

Kathy Hammond: 19:42

Sure. I think that there's some ego at play. And if there's, if you don't know something, you don't want to reveal that by sitting down with somebody else to say, Okay, how do we do this together? Right? Ain't that I mean, simply the way to do that is really put your egos aside, be able to come to the to the table, sit down and really start mapping out. Okay, first of all, what like in the case of sales, what is the sales process, you have to understand what the sales process is, it's shocking that a lot of sales leaders have no idea they cannot identify the various stages of their sales process and articulate it. I mean, if we've got, you know, 21, that we in the job analysis, that the sales process, they have to take it from cold from start at the very beginning, all the way down to not just to the closing of the sale. But beyond that to referrals and customer maintenance, and all of that.

 

David Turetsky: 20:45

Yeah.

 

Kathy Hammond: 20:45

So, and then the hiring manager, being able to educate the talent acquisition the HR people on exactly what that is and what that means. So when I say, you know, you ask anybody in a job interview, and they say, Well, you know, how do you feel about cold calling? Well, they want the job, if they want the job, they're gonna tell you, I love it, and then you will never see them pick up a phone. They're just not going to do it. Right?

 

David Turetsky: 21:12

Right.

 

Kathy Hammond: 21:12

Yeah. So but it's so how do you uncover that? So it's then really being making sure that you have all of the various questions for each aspect of that sales process to be able to uncover that those that can those who cannot perform that role?

 

David Turetsky: 21:33

Right. But that's why I was asking you a little bit before about assessments, because it's so hard to ask a question where someone just doesn't come back with a bologna answer that says Yes, right? You know, do you like cold calling? Or, you know, are you good at cold calling? Well, sure. Yeah. Who isn't? You know, I get a list of people call them one at a time, make them a best friend, and you know, sell them a ton of stuff? No, that's not really cold calling,

 

Dwight Brown: 21:56

Right.

 

David Turetsky: 21:57

So, so how, you know, is there a, is there a role for assessments in this where, you know, the both the TA team and the manager can sit down together, take a library of good questions around the competency, and then be able to ferret out what actually makes sense to be able to have people respond to and, and do so accurately.

 

Kathy Hammond: 22:19

You know, there are some good sales assessments, one example or other, but they have to be validated for that particular role in order for them to really be able to predict performance.

 

David Turetsky: 22:32

Sure.

 

Kathy Hammond: 22:32

However, you know, what we have in in one aspect of our program, is that we have all of the questions, the interview questions for hiring managers to ask along with a behavioral anchored rating scale to so that you can see where on the spectrum that individual where they fall, specific to that job task. So we don't just say, Do you like, you know, to cold call, you know, how is that it's like, describe a time that you had to do this. And then you want to hear the detail. But it's not that then you don't want to leave that to chance either for somebody to make an assessment, oh, that sounds good or that doesn't. We give them from having from subject matter experts in sales, from the not qualified all the way to the well qualified, so that they say, this is what you should be hearing at this higher level. Because it's a it's a matter of elevating the performance in the organization, not just like, okay, they can do the job. You have one of these, like, 20% of people in the organization are doing 80% of the producing, 80% of the result. That's in all departments, including including sales. But you have to know what that looks like, at what is it? What do what do really high performing candidates say to that question? And so they should be developing those questions to gather HR and hiring manager to really again, by each of the job tasks from the within that job analysis.

 

David Turetsky: 24:13

So really, they're taking the job description, and they're going through it with the hiring manager, and TA person is actually going to list you know, here are the ones where we need to have some understanding about what the behavioral anchors are here, that you're going to be judging the people against. And let's give you some advice and training on how to listen to the right things and score them appropriately as to their level as well as their ability to fit into what you need.

 

Kathy Hammond: 24:41

Well, it's like, forget the job description. You have to go from that job analysis break down that job. What exactly does that person have to do? And then you have to then develop the question, or coupling class because you might have a couple of other people asking so and develop the interview question. So that because now first of all, this is going to eliminate hiring bias, because once you're able to score upon that you're going off of a number, you're not going off of that managers interpretation, that's often what they heard, right? But, but that's where HR talent acquisition can help with the hiring manager, because the hiring manager is not going to know how to do any of this. And that part of it, the interview, that's one leg of the hiring process, because of course, you want to go back and check references and all of that. But, you know, like I've said, and I mean, prior to Workforce Solutions that I I've been in, I had a long career in commercial security systems. And, and then also wholesale alarm monitoring on a on a national scale. And our customers were, what they call door knockers, these were companies that would put down an army of people out into the field to sell alarm systems door to door, that is a completely different skill set. I mean, these people were making these college students making a ton of money, the really good ones. But it's a different type of sale. So I mean, somebody I mean, I couldn't do it! Go door to door and trying to sell something. It's sales skill, but it's a different, it's a different thing altogether.

 

David Turetsky: 26:29

Right.

 

Kathy Hammond: 26:30

And so they have to have agreed upon measurements between HR and the and the hiring managers, everyone has to be they have to be speaking the same language. And then also knowing how to measure that, to set it all up can be time, if they're doing it from scratch themselves, is time consuming can be expensive. They may need an IO psychologist, I mean, you know, our stuff has been developed in conjunction with IO psychologists. But in the long run, they're just able to easily replicate it each time that they they need someone. So you know, it's an investment upfront, but understanding that the process, the job description, gets written after they identify exactly what is needed, because that job description, also, job descriptions are a legal document.

 

David Turetsky: 27:21

Right!

 

Kathy Hammond: 27:21

So it's important for them to also have that accountability factor in there, I'm not going to just tell you that you need to be doing cold calls, you need to be doing at least 200 cold calls per week, you know, in order to get these results. But you have to again, it all comes back to data. It's all measurements.

 

David Turetsky: 27:39

Can I go back to something you mentioned before that you you touched on lightly, but I think it's really critical, is the reference call. Now, obviously, you can't ask people to sign anything, saying, oh, yeah, this person was great at this or that or the other thing. But I think one of the things that we don't do a very good job of it, what is the structure of a successful reference check?

 

Kathy Hammond: 28:01

Asking the right questions.

 

David Turetsky: 28:03

Right. But that's, that's my question. What are those right questions, because you can't ask certain things. And people don't want to answer other things.

 

Kathy Hammond: 28:10

Right.

 

David Turetsky: 28:11

So how do you ask how do you know what the right questions are?

 

Kathy Hammond: 28:14

You know, and so we and we have a, a form that we use for the the, because we're really we're talking about their performance. But we're, we're talking about it and we're asking them in such a way for certain elements about their motivation, about how they overcome obstacles, you know, and give it like, if they have examples that they have to share. It's almost like interviewing them as well.

 

David Turetsky: 28:42

Yeah, exactly.

 

Kathy Hammond: 28:44

And, yeah, and it's not just, you know, what can you share with me about this, this candidate? Because it's name rank and serial number, you know, for fear of being sued, but this is it, this is different to the process that we take, by, you know, asking, yeah, generally, but really about their, their, how they, how they are functioning on the job, how are they getting along with team members, you know, how, you know, how were their relationships with the clients? If they're in sales? You know, and again, I mean, depends upon the job itself.

 

David Turetsky: 29:19

Sure.

 

Kathy Hammond: 29:20

But it's, you know, structuring those questions so that you're having a conversation, not just having getting rote answers from, you know, from employers who may be afraid to respond.

 

David Turetsky: 29:33

And to your point, name, rank and serial number, right?

 

Kathy Hammond: 29:36

Right. And one thing I've noticed is that the really high performing people, these managers want to gush about what this person did, but then they're also really honest, because I asked, What was one thing that you would have liked to have seen different, you know, in it, like something that maybe was a challenge for them, and when they go through all the positive stuff there very happy to come in with this. This is where there might be, you know, where they could use some additional coaching.

 

David Turetsky: 30:07

I've had some of those calls too Kathy, and I gotta be honest with you, I appreciate more when they want to know the full circle the rounded questions, like you just mentioned, relative to the ones who go, so were they a good employee or not? What? What does that mean? What do you mean by that? Did you like them, would you hire them again?

 

Dwight Brown: 30:25

There's hardly any value in that answer.

 

David Turetsky: 30:27

Yeah, right. Exactly. There really isn't. So So I'm glad that there is a an answer for what's an appropriate way of being able to ask a reference for, you know, how do you how do you fit? How would they fit in and, you know, not asking too much, but asking just enough to be able to be a little more successful in the choice and then making the right decisions for hiring.

 

Kathy Hammond: 30:49

Right.

 

David Turetsky: 30:57

Kathy, it's been a pleasure talking to you. You're obviously a treasure trove and a really brilliant representative of this process. Thank you so much for joining us. It's been really enlightening.

 

Kathy Hammond: 31:09

Thank you. Gosh, that was, that was fast.

 

David Turetsky: 31:10

Well, as we say, once we get past our technology issues, usually, it actually goes by really quickly. So thank you very much for being with us.

 

Kathy Hammond: 31:18

Thank you!

 

Dwight Brown: 31:21

Thanks so much for being here, Kathy.

 

David Turetsky: 31:23

Dwight, thank you as well!

 

Dwight Brown: 31:24

Thank you. It's been great. Now we're all ready for the weekend.

 

David Turetsky: 31:29

So everybody, take care, stay safe, and we'll talk again soon.

 

Announcer: 31:35

That was the HR Data Labs podcast. If you liked the episode, please subscribe. And if you know anyone that might like to hear it, please send it their way. Thank you for joining us this week, and stay tuned for our next episode. Stay safe